Ringless Voice Mail Setup

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Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby chasejordan1 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:19 pm

Can Ringless Voice Mail be setup on Vicidial? If so I would like it done.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:44 pm

You'll need to describe that a bit better. Under what circumstances, call path mostly, would you want there to be no ring?

Inbound calls? Survey calls?

No Ring? No "busy message"? No "unavailable" message? Or just no ring?

Details ... 8-)
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby chasejordan1 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:03 am

Outbound calls to cell numbers, the phone does not ring it just drops a pre recorded message into the cell phones voice mail.

This is a definition of what other companies are saying it is.

"Ringless voicemail is not a traditional phone call. Instead, it delivers your message through the interface of the local phone company software and its voice mail system.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:48 am

It is not possible to skip the ring and still get to voicemail.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby chasejordan1 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:53 pm

I dunno all I know is there are companies selling the "product" and it seems to work.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:16 pm

There are two likely explanations:

1) It's localized. They have a deal with a local telco and pay the telco for this access.

2) NOT Cell, not universal, and not something that will cost a call recipient $$. Probably land lines only for the specific telco with which they have a deal.

To be clear: There is no "code" or other method that can be used with a generic phone call to "go to voicemail" without ringing that works in any way universally, this would be a proprietary deal they have with a telco ... or they're lying and just do voicebroadcast and expect to hit a lot of Voicemail (perhaps with a list) which is obviously not the same thing.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby teleinx » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:08 pm

We have had customers who try to "jam" the lines with 2 calls simultaneously to reach the voicemail. Let me tell you right now, it does not work. There is a way to reach the VM directly however, its not easy and mostly reserved for the telco's.
If you want leave ringless voicemail, go with one of the company's that sell the service, you will be better of.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:26 pm

I have recent reports of telcos (well, aggregators, too), that have contracts with the majors to "just leave a voicemail". While I do not have personal confirmation that the service actually exists and works well, at least I do have it on good authority at this point that it "should". But it's NOT something you can "just do" without that contract. And it's not free at all, of course.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:14 pm

Ringless VM is a proprietary system. You must have contracts with the telco providers to make it happen.

Since no call center has that, you'd need to use a carrier who can do this for you. Beware false advertisers, demand a demonstration before you pay so much as one cent (in YOUR phone, or it's no go). Note that some of them "intend" to get this going, and others already have. You'll need a list of the Telcos they can leave messages at.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby teleinx » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:36 pm

If you need are looking for a all in one package, we have a platform that you can use to leave ringless vm. There are a few on the market.

If you are looking to use your own solution (vici) and just need the access, we are developing this so you may set us up just like your outbound carrier; where is you send us the call and we will send your call directly to the vm box of the wireless subscriber.

I should also mention the costs of this. Calls like this are not per minute based. They are based on attempt. So if you have a lot of bad numbers in your list you will end up paying for those same as the good numbers.
Just like LRN dip, if a number is bad or good the dip itself costs $.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:44 pm

teleinx wrote:If you need are looking for a all in one package, we have a platform that you can use to leave ringless vm. There are a few on the market.

If you are looking to use your own solution (vici) and just need the access, we are developing this so you may set us up just like your outbound carrier; where is you send us the call and we will send your call directly to the vm box of the wireless subscriber.

I should also mention the costs of this. Calls like this are not per minute based. They are based on attempt. So if you have a lot of bad numbers in your list you will end up paying for those same as the good numbers.
Just like LRN dip, if a number is bad or good the dip itself costs $.

Which wireless carriers can you leave VM for? (Please don't say "all" or I'll have to be cross with you ... LOL)
I presume it's ONLY for wireless ...? And failure can occur, for instance, if the user has not yet configured VM or has a full inbox, right?
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby mflorell » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:07 pm

It should be mentioned that, if used for sales or marketing in the USA, the "ringless vm" solutions that rely upon placing two phone calls in quick succession are technically in violation of the FTC's TSR(telemarketing sales rule), because any call placed for the purpose of marketing or sales cannot be voluntarily hung up by the caller in less than 15 seconds. If you place a call for 1 second, then place a second call to go to voicemail and hang up the first call, that first call is in violation of the TSR and is subject to a $16,000 per call fine.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby teleinx » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:48 pm

williamconley,

No Not all, the reason why not all is because the expenses assisted with such a interop are greater then the revenue it would bring from the smaller mobile operators. So only the major ones AT&T Spring T Mobile VZ.

mflorell,

The idea is not to jam with the first call, instead to send 2 calls at the same time so the mobile device never rings and therefor the "ringless" voicemail. As we all know, there are too many factors that can take place in that scenario and possibly violate the TSR.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:02 pm

teleinx wrote:The idea is not to jam with the first call, instead to send 2 calls at the same time so the mobile device never rings and therefor the "ringless" voicemail. As we all know, there are too many factors that can take place in that scenario and possibly violate the TSR.

We all know the "idea". But the point you jumped over is that it is ILLEGAL to terminate either call in less than 15 seconds from your side of the call. And if this activity is "caught" by the FCC, the fine (as Matt mentioned) is huge and would apply to the company responsible for the call. I'd be willing to bet that everyone involved would then point at the call center as being "responsible" unless your contract calls for a "Hold Harmless" clause protecting them AND you have lawyers capable of making that happen (and a deep pocket to pay the fines, of course). If you don't have a contract with "the biggies" allowing you to directly place the calls in VM, there is DANGER. That's the point.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby mflorell » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:27 pm

The FTC has actually fined BOTH service providers AND their clients for robo-calls to cellphones in the recent past. In cases where this has happened, it was the service provider that specifically marketed robo-calling to cellphones(something that is by default illegal), and that was the reason they were fined. This "ringless voicemail" service seems to fit that same type of scenario as well.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby teleinx » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:57 am

williamconley wrote:
teleinx wrote:The idea is not to jam with the first call, instead to send 2 calls at the same time so the mobile device never rings and therefor the "ringless" voicemail. As we all know, there are too many factors that can take place in that scenario and possibly violate the TSR.

We all know the "idea". But the point you jumped over is that it is ILLEGAL to terminate either call in less than 15 seconds from your side of the call. And if this activity is "caught" by the FCC, the fine (as Matt mentioned) is huge and would apply to the company responsible for the call. I'd be willing to bet that everyone involved would then point at the call center as being "responsible" unless your contract calls for a "Hold Harmless" clause protecting them AND you have lawyers capable of making that happen (and a deep pocket to pay the fines, of course). If you don't have a contract with "the biggies" allowing you to directly place the calls in VM, there is DANGER. That's the point.


I did not jump over that notion. The whole point and reason why its still not illegal to leave just the voicemail on a mobile phone is because the mobile customer does not pay anything (use airtime minutes) to check the voicemail. So if the call never rings the mobile phone and takes a straight path to the voicemail box it is considered legal (at least for now).

I am not sure what the duration has to do with it, I never heard of duration minimums before.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby mflorell » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:55 am

Call duration minimums are a part of the FTC's TSR(telemarketing sales rules) implemented over a decade ago. They are well documented and have been tested in court.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:15 am

teleinx wrote:I did not jump over that notion. The whole point and reason why its still not illegal to leave just the voicemail on a mobile phone is because the mobile customer does not pay anything (use airtime minutes) to check the voicemail. So if the call never rings the mobile phone and takes a straight path to the voicemail box it is considered legal (at least for now).

I am not sure what the duration has to do with it, I never heard of duration minimums before.

Which means you actually did skip over it because you were unaware of it. That's why we're trying to impress upon you the need to be Aware that there is a 15 second minimum dial time per call. If you get caught terminating calls in under 15 seconds, there is a fine. Everyone involved and aware or even merely benefitting from the "scam" would be held liable based on prior cases.

This is a warning for anyone reading the thread, but you as well. I'd hate to see anyone get hit by something like that when they are Trying to stay on the Up and Up.

That's where the concept of having a contract with the carriers comes into play. With the contract, there is no call under 15 seconds. No violation of the law. But it costs more money, of course.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby teleinx » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:37 pm

williamconley wrote:
teleinx wrote:I did not jump over that notion. The whole point and reason why its still not illegal to leave just the voicemail on a mobile phone is because the mobile customer does not pay anything (use airtime minutes) to check the voicemail. So if the call never rings the mobile phone and takes a straight path to the voicemail box it is considered legal (at least for now).

I am not sure what the duration has to do with it, I never heard of duration minimums before.

Which means you actually did skip over it because you were unaware of it. That's why we're trying to impress upon you the need to be Aware that there is a 15 second minimum dial time per call. If you get caught terminating calls in under 15 seconds, there is a fine. Everyone involved and aware or even merely benefitting from the "scam" would be held liable based on prior cases.

This is a warning for anyone reading the thread, but you as well. I'd hate to see anyone get hit by something like that when they are Trying to stay on the Up and Up.

That's where the concept of having a contract with the carriers comes into play. With the contract, there is no call under 15 seconds. No violation of the law. But it costs more money, of course.


I think the 15 second comment is rather irrelevant to this thread and does not really help the OP or have anything to do with "ringless voicemail"

however on the side note:
So if calls under 15 seconds and less are in violation, why do all you dialer guys have such low ACDs? Seriously though, if everyone hung the call for at least 15 seconds all of your traffic would be a lot easier to handle for all the carriers. Wouldn't that make answering machine detection feature "illegal"?
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby mflorell » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:13 am

The RING TIME has to be at least 15 seconds, not the time after the answer signal is received. This has nothing to do with answering machine detection.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby teleinx » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:16 pm

mflorell wrote:The RING TIME has to be at least 15 seconds, not the time after the answer signal is received. This has nothing to do with answering machine detection.


Alright, so its not a a duration issue its a ringing or alerting issue.
Well I suppose that if there is no ringing in the first place then it can't have a minimum time. Also, you assume this the OP or Ringless voicemail is used only by telemarketing sales. In general, there is other types of traffic that is none sales and is exempt from telemarketing sales rules.

furthermore, the call center/dialer traffic is still high percent of cancels while ringing. I assume its largely attributed to the predictive dialers of the world.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:22 am

teleinx wrote:
mflorell wrote:The RING TIME has to be at least 15 seconds, not the time after the answer signal is received. This has nothing to do with answering machine detection.


Alright, so its not a a duration issue its a ringing or alerting issue.
Well I suppose that if there is no ringing in the first place then it can't have a minimum time. Also, you assume this the OP or Ringless voicemail is used only by telemarketing sales. In general, there is other types of traffic that is none sales and is exempt from telemarketing sales rules.

furthermore, the call center/dialer traffic is still high percent of cancels while ringing. I assume its largely attributed to the predictive dialers of the world.

Dialing two calls at once and terminating the first one so the second one can go to VM is an obvious attempt to abuse the system. You'll get caught. So you'll need to stay portable, but your customers may not be able to do that.

I'd say you're treading on thin ice, but you're really just tied to a rock and floating toward the seabed on this. The purpose of the rules is to avoid abuse of the system. If you find what you think is a technicality in the law ... without Reading The Laws and Rules and/or paying a lawyer (not the "Free Advice" version!), you're good as long as you stay tiny and unnoticed.

Any of your clients, however, who use your services and have deeper bank accounts and actual ties to the community would be wise to consult someone who knows what they are talking about in addition to actually retaining a lawyer who is familiar with this industry.

The carriers don't want you doing this, as it wastes their equipment time (and they can't bill you) when there's no answer. The FCC doesn't want you doing this since in many cases your "intent" to avoid ringing the phone will not block the phone from ringing. If you use a fake callerid for that first phone call (a common attempt to hide) then you'll really pique the interest of the FCC when you grow large enough to get noticed (ie: Complaints filed) ... and you'll end up being one of those headlines with the multi-million dollar award. But since you'll disappear as soon as the FCC becomes involved, your Client will end up on the hook.

And before you say "Never happen", you should look at the existing big awards. There's always a provider (or more than one!) who disappeared during the process. But the lawyers always find a deep pocket and the small call centers involved who are working for those deep pockets (ie: larger corporations) get stuck in the middle when the money-grubber goes *poof*. Then the major corporation cuts the award check, the small call center people get a red-stain on their reputations that can't be washed off (not to mention having to sell their houses and cars) and become pariahs in the industry ... And the major corporations are suddenly MUCH less likely to trust another small call center as a direct result.

Trusting someone who will play fast and loose with FCC rules to make a quick buck hammers the entire industry and results in some of these truly over-the-top laws to combat it.

Yep, I'm lookin' at you. LOL 8-)

But of course, this is all merely my opinion. What do I know. I haven't been doing this for very long. *)
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby jj8878 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:33 am

Stratics Networks invented Ringless Voicemail Drops and I see they also hold the trademark. You can go to [url]Ringlessvoicemaildrops.com[/url] and find them or to http://www.StraticsNetworks.com, I was on a legal webinar and they had over 20 telcom attorneys endorsing Stratics Networks, Ringless Voicemail Drops.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby viciboy » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:58 am

jj8878 wrote:Stratics Networks invented Ringless Voicemail Drops and I see they also hold the trademark. You can go to [url]Ringlessvoicemaildrops.com[/url] and find them or to http://www.StraticsNetworks.com, I was on a legal webinar and they had over 20 telcom attorneys endorsing Stratics Networks, Ringless Voicemail Drops.


We tried once and it was calling those numbers instead of leaving ringless voicemail and even didn't leaving a message after a call, so we stopped working more and left our $100 with them LOL
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:34 pm

viciboy wrote:
jj8878 wrote:Stratics Networks invented Ringless Voicemail Drops and I see they also hold the trademark. You can go to [url]Ringlessvoicemaildrops.com[/url] and find them or to http://www.StraticsNetworks.com, I was on a legal webinar and they had over 20 telcom attorneys endorsing Stratics Networks, Ringless Voicemail Drops.


We tried once and it was calling those numbers instead of leaving ringless voicemail and even didn't leaving a message after a call, so we stopped working more and left our $100 with them LOL

Ouch.

We have had several providers claim success (with contracts, not lawyers, it's simpler) and we have NOT had any clients report success as yet. If someone does have successful "voicemail drops", it would be great to hear. Not "I heard someone did", but "*I* did", LOL.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:34 pm

And on another note: If *I* got a voicemail in my inbox on my cell phone without the phone ringing, the Cell Phone company that sold the right to do this would lose my business immediately. The concept of selling rights to my inbox to a 3rd party without my permission and without compensating me sounds like the basis for a class-action lawsuit.

They'd lose more money than they make.

But doing this without a contract would be cause for every cell phone company to chase you down and stomp on you.

One thing I note, I do not see a "hey! we do this and it's perfectly legal!" from someone with a multi-story building downtown (which they would have if they could do this legally and not in hiding, LOL).

Just sayin'
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby saqi » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:04 am

I have done it recently with a little bit of tweaking and it works. Success rate is about 90-95 percent.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby HeadHunter » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:30 pm

We are and have been doing this for nearly a year now. Much of what has been discussed in this thread is accurate. We tried several companies claiming legal methods. Many who are selling this product are using the obviously illegal double call method. I would urge anyone interested in this to do as much homework as possible and test its accuracy prior to launch. We have relied on vici and predictive dialing for many years and I can say this is a true game changer for the telesales industry. For now it is compliant and not regulated. The more common this method becomes and complaints come in because of abuse it may be short lived. As of today we have never had a complaint filed against us in relation to the RVM. Anyone interested in using this method please understand that the results are directly related to what your marketing and your VM message. Its not as easy as loading leads and making calls.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:07 pm

HeadHunter wrote:We are and have been doing this for nearly a year now.
...
We tried several companies claiming legal methods.
...
For now it is compliant and not regulated.
...
As of today we have never had a complaint filed against us in relation to the RVM. Anyone interested in using this method please understand that the results are directly related to what your marketing and your VM message. Its not as easy as loading leads and making calls.

I'm confused. Are you offering this service, warning others not to use this service, or ...what?

"As of today we ..." sounds like you're trying to say something akin to "it seems safe/working", but really it translates to "we ain't been caught yet", and of course in the end the one whose caller id is used will be the one who gets caught, sued, and shut down. Possibly losing their business and house while they are at it. Not-LOL

But I'm not sure that's what you were doing ... except you list phone and skype and you have only ONE post, which makes this seem as if it's an advertisement.

So clarify for me, if you would be so kind, as to where you were goin' with that, cuz I'm lost entirely. 8-)
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby HeadHunter » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 pm

This has been a hot topic in the industry that we primarily work in. Over the years complaints come in from time to time as one expects. Since our implementation of RVM to our sales floor we have not received a single complaint. Most recipients of an RVM just simply "assume" they missed a call that didn't show up. Therefore most don't realize the technology that was used for their receipt of the message. I think this process just simply changes a consumers perception. I'm not posting on here to sell this product (not that I couldn't) but just to give knowledge of it through personal success. As far as this having been my only post, I just joined today. I have used the forum for years to gain information but have just never added to it.
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:20 pm

So ... you are doing it.

Curiosity: Are you using a callerID for those "missed calls" that would bring the FCC to YOUR doorstep, or your client's?

What providers actually allow you to leave a VM?

Or are you doing this without a contract, using the double-call method?

Or are you calling actual client lists where these recipients are expecting you to call and don't realize because of the existing relationship?
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:16 pm

Hm. Only two posts, but they have Vicidial Hosting. And they perform a service that I've said several times could easily result in the Client getting the short end of the stick (with Badges no less).

And the posts both sound like "sound bites" from a VOIP seminar. Happy sounding posts with no details make me nervous mr. headhunter. Just sayin' ...

Perhaps you could fill in some details?

I'm not really trying to flame you, or anything, but I do like to be sure that anyone reading this thread doesn't see your TFN and dial it because there are no red flags and they think you're safe cuz you're on this forum. IE: I'm raising some red flags ... and hoping you can shine some light to cause them to come down. 8-)
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby Ryan Gentry » Tue May 29, 2018 2:53 pm

Hello,
Drop Cowboy Ringless voicemail is a very powerful tool in itself but when paired together with ViciDial it becomes the most powerful lead generation tool you can have. Here is an informative page in regards how to implement ringless voicemail into your business and how to pair the two systems together. https://www.dropcowboy.com/ringless-voicemail-drops/implementing-ringless-voicemail-for-business
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Re: Ringless Voice Mail Setup

Postby williamconley » Tue May 29, 2018 3:17 pm

Ryan Gentry wrote:Hello,
Drop Cowboy Ringless voicemail is a very powerful tool in itself but when paired together with ViciDial it becomes the most powerful lead generation tool you can have. Here is an informative page in regards how to implement ringless voicemail into your business and how to pair the two systems together. https://www.dropcowboy.com/ringless-voicemail-drops/implementing-ringless-voicemail-for-business

Depth:

Creation Date: 2017-11-17 (six month old company?)

https://www.capterra.com/p/173905/Drop-Cowboy/

Pricing Details
Our smallest package starts at $15.00 for 150 Voicemail Drops

10 cents per "drop".

One review (very young company).

Missing from a transparency standpoint:

* List of Telcos with which they have contracts.
* FCC protection: None. As an exception to the rule, this ringless VM company admits that this technology does not bypass any laws. You are still required to follow all of them.
* DNC adherence? No mention is made. They **SHOULD** require your SAN number to avoid ringing any DNC submitted landlines (yes, landlines can ring during this process, as they admit on their site) and/or omit DNC cell phones as well.

There's no mention made as to whether their legal department will protect you from the TCPA outlawed "calling a cell phone using a system capable of automation", which is still illegal. They skirted the issue by saying it's not a "robocall", but did not mention the recent wisconsin ruling regarding calling a cell phone with any system capable of automation. Automation is not robocall. Their system is unquestionably automated.

I'd want assurance that their lawyers would cover any such accusation, otherwise the entire concept is illegal until a judge weighs in. Unless someone on here has a precedent more "on-point" than the wisconsin multi-million-dollar "capable of automation" ruling.

Speaking of which: Who are they? Cowboy Concepts LLC ... but this corporation has no apparent online footprint aside from this one web site. Concept: LLC means if you sue them, they can shut down operations and walk away. By definition.

Anyone using this company: Exercise caution. Consult an attorney. Go in with your eyes open! And report your results.
Vicidial Installation and Repair, plus Hosting and Colocation
SugarCRM integration - Customization and Add-ons - We Bring It All Together.
http://www.PoundTeam.com # 352-269-0000 # +44 (203) 769-2294 # +506 4001-8914
williamconley
 
Posts: 17236
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:17 pm
Location: Davenport, FL (By Disney!)


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