Function of internal DNC?

[bryceowen]

The manager manual isn't terribly clear about it and I'm almost certain my understanding of its function is wrong, but I wouldn't mind being corrected.

My initial belief was the system checked leads against the internal DNC list as it loaded them into the hopper,preventing DNC numbers from being called. Having received a number of complaints about people being called despite adding their numbers to the internal DNC tells me this is incorrect.

My new belief is the system merely checks leads as they are loaded into the system against the internal DNC and dispositions them as DNCL, essentially deleting the record without actually deleting it and leaving any existing records freely dialable until dispositioned as DNC or some other status that isn't called.

Am I now correct or is there another explanation?

[mflorell]

The behavoir of the DNC list depends on the campaign settings related to Internal and Campaign-specific DNC lists.

The DNC lists are not filtered upon lead loading, they are filtered during the hopper insertion process and are set to DNCL or DNCC if they are in the DNC lists if DNC list checking is enabled for the campaign.

[bryceowen]

So I wasn't terribly far off with my first belief. I need to gather more information before I can say there's a problem, but there have been some cases where I manually entered a number into the internal DNC and it ended up being called.

[prolixus]

I used to handle dnc for my company before using vici,
I do upload dnc using the admin account if they are 500 - even millions of them.
using the front end, you could only enter one dnc number at a time, by this the hopper or the log will then recognize the number tagged as dnc.

[williamconley]

before deciding whether or not there is a problem, check the settings for the campaign that made the call.

if Use Internal DNC List is "N" ... that's your problem. Also verify that the call occurred AFTER the lead was placed into the DNC.

Asterisk has logs that are very helpful in this endeavor.

We check ALL leads against the federal dnc before import and vicidial checks against OUR dnc before placing in the hopper.

[mflorell]

In SVN trunk you can now enter in hundreds of DNC phone numbers at once in the DNC add form.

[bryceowen]

William: I've checked the settings for all of our campaigns. They all use the internal DNC list.

[williamconley]

have you found the call in the log to determine when it was made? then check to see when the record was entered in your DNC ... obviously it is possible it was made before the DNC entry was created.

failing that you'll have to test. put an entry into the DNC. Then add a list with that number on it and see if the dialer refuses the call. then you can (under controlled circumstances) verify and resolve the issue, or find that it was a simple error.

[bryceowen]

William:
I have a record on hand that was dispositioned as DNC on 2-23-09. A duplicate record was created and entered in a different list into the same campaign (which is setup to use the internal DNC list). The duplicate record was called on 3-2-09. Our hopper level is at 200 and we called 44,571 leads between those dates, so I can assure you there is no way the duplicate was already in the hopper prior to the first record being set as DNC. The duplicate was not automatically set as DNCL as Matt described it should have been.

We are currently using v. 2.0.5-148, b. 81103-1408. What information do you need from me to help resolve this?

**EDIT**
I actually just found a second lead. Set as DNC on 2-20-09 and the duplicate was called 3-2-09. All four of these leads are in the same campaign.

[williamconley]

matt did not say that "duplicate records would also be assigned dnc". i think you may have misunderstood the "do not call" system in vicidial.

when you "disposition" a call as "do not call", that does not create a "Do Not Call" entry in the "Do Not Call" database in Vicidial. It merely dispositions that particular individual lead as "don't call this lead any more", the code for which is "DNC".

To CREATE a COMPANY "DNC" DATABASE ENTRY, you need to go to "lists" and "Add Number To DNC". This will create a database entry which will be checked before any lead is loaded into the hopper.

These are separate functions and not automatically mixed. Normally, you do not choose "DNC" as a "Dial Status" allowed to be dialed in a campaign (and you do not choose a callback time for someone whom you are dispositioning as "DNC") and the result is that lead never being called back. In this case (of a DNC Disposition), however, the lead is never called back merely because noone chose to do so while defining the campaign by choosing to call "DNC" leads ... (we all have our reasons for choosing a disposition to call, and yes sometimes we will call back the DNC list just to apologize for calling them to begin with and make sure they are not upset about receiving a phone call and/or for QA purposes to be sure the operator acted appropriately).

However, in the case of a number added via "Add Number To DNC", the system will simply refuse to load the lead into the hopper at all. Regardless of whether the room manager enable the lead based on disposition, the vicidial system will refuse to dial it.

This is primarily to meet the legal requirement of maintaining a company DNC list which is used to stop numbers from being called. In addition to that it helps to be able to tell an irate person that they have definitely been added to the internal DNC list and will not be receiving any automated calls from your system (and not be lying to them to get them off the phone!).

The reason there are two different versions is that according to the law the DNC table is required and must stop automated outbound calls, but we also want the "DNC" disposition for circumstances such as when someone says "Go Away!" and hangs up. That caller does not legally need to be "Added to the Company's Internal Do Not Call List", but would merely be dispositioned as "DNC" and the lead would likely never be called again.

Ok. Book written. Did I hit the right buttons for you?

[bryceowen]

Actually, at least on our system, when a call is dispositioned as DNC, the phone number IS added to the internal DNC list. I found that out when I was given a list of numbers to add and they were already on the list. Further investigation and experimentation proved it. And Matt did say in the first reply that if the number appears in the internal DNC list, the system would set the status as DNCL or DNCC during the lead insertion process. He didn't explicitly state duplicates would be set, but it would fit in with the spirit of what he was saying. If you have one phone number in the internal DNC list and thirty leads with that phone number, I would assume the system would catch and filter out all thirty of those leads given what Matt said.

[williamconley]

i apologize, *I* have an older version or something is broken in it! That's different.

All our DNC lists are strictly collected and guarded so we never piss anyone off. I found that initially they didn't populate in that fashion, so we simply used mysql to collect and combine and redistribute the DNC lists across all servers in our enterprise.

In that case, did you use the dedupe function when you imported? I wonder if it's a 1:1 match during the import and after it found ONE match it stopped looking for more.

Import a list with two of the same phone number (which you know is in the DNC) and see if it marks both of them or just one. Fairly simple test. If it's a bug it should be easy to resolve.

[bryceowen]

I just made a test list with 20 records, all having the same phone number. I attached the list to a new campaign that has the same settings as the one we've been talking about and when I reset the hopper, all 20 were set as DNCL, just as Matt said it should.

So much for reproducing the problem under controlled conditions.

This is a mix campaign, if that makes any difference.

[williamconley]

Next test: Put in the same lead 20 times in one list. Call one and disposition as DNC and see if it changes all the records to dnc or just one and see if it catches the subsequent leads on the way into the hopper and changes them. (This may be what you did last time, but if you already had the number in the DNC list when you imported ... this scenario is slightly different)

[bryceowen]

O.K. New, weirder problem.

I took the number off the internal DNC list and loaded the leads into a new list in the campaign. All of them were marked as DNCL. So I went to the original record and changed its status to something other than DNC and again verified I had taken the number out of the internal DNC list and reloaded the list. Same thing, they all get marked as DNCL when the campaign tries to load them into the hopper.

At this point, I would try rebooting the server (just in case the DNC list is stuck in memory) and starting over, but I can't really do that right now (dialer is in use and I don't have access to the server). Any suggestions?

[williamconley]

how did you take the number off the internal dnc list?

[bryceowen]

phpMyAdmin, unless you want the specific SQL, in which case:
DELETE FROM vicidial_dnc WHERE phone_number='9048864664';